Hmmm…waffles. I’ll have to try that one.

I’m not trying to start any sh*t with anyone (oh but I’m sure it will ;)), but I need to get something straight here.

This sauce is given a 5 out of 10 overall in a review on HSB today, just weeks after it wins a Golden Chile at Zest Fest, not to mention the Best Overall designation for another one of their products. How can that be? Where’s the disconnect here? What am I missing?

As a maker that competed in the same category as this product (XXX Hot No Extract) with our Droolin’ Devil Liquid Sin and came in 2nd place, how should I feel about this rating and them beating out my sauce?
I’m just curious how sauces that get a mediocre rating on people’s dinner tables win awards, and first place for that matter.
I was quite proud to come in with a silver in this category, considering how many awards Gourmet Conveniences won, but after reading this review and others elsewhere, should I be?

I know our Liquid Sin is way above a mid grade sauce, our sales, customers and independent reviews tell us that (have no fear my ego is still in tact). So basically it sounds like winning a Golden Chlile or Scovie doesn’t really mean much in the real world or am I wrong?

I have never tried any of this makers products and am only basing this observation on Ron’s review (so whatever happens in this thread is all your fault Ron). I have seen other, perhaps less informed, reviews of this company’s products elsewhere and their ratings differ from Ron’s, but seeing as Ron is a maker also I’m going to assume his review is correct for the purpose of this arguement.

This comment is in no way a shot at Gourmet Conveneinces, I’m sure they make great products and deserved to win every award they brought home according to the ZestFest judges. So this isn’t sour grapes or anything, I’m just a little disillusioned with the whole award thing because this isn’t the first time I’ve seen an award winning sauce given a less than stellar review.
When one of my customers asks me about the little golden seal on the neck of the bottle, I should be confident in telling them that they’re picking up a great sauce, shouldn’t I?

Thoughts anyone???

Hey Big,

You seem a bit worked up. Here’s my .02 cents on awards. They don’t mean crap! I have a few and I still feel the same way. They are fun to own and fun to show, but flavor is totally subjective. I’m not fond of overly sweet sauces. Obviously the ZestFest Judges luv’s em!

Besides awards don’t sell sauce, marketing sells sauce. Awards are helpful in marketing, but I don’t know a single serious specialty food manufacturer that will tell you that he won an award and then the orders came rushing in.

Everyone loves a trophy. So have some fun, win an award and keep making your awesome sauce!

Ron Levi
http://www.innuendofods.com

Ron Levi on 10/14/2007 at 3:42 pm said:

Hey Big,

You seem a bit worked up. Here’s my .02 cents on awards. They don’t mean crap! I have a few and I still feel the same way. They are fun to own and fun to show, but flavor is totally subjective. I’m not fond of overly sweet sauces. Obviously the ZestFest Judges luv’s em!

Besides awards don’t sell sauce, marketing sells sauce. Awards are helpful in marketing, but I don’t know a single serious specialty food manufacturer that will tell you that he won an award and then the orders came rushing in.

Everyone loves a trophy. So have some fun, win an award and keep making your awesome sauce!

Ron Levi
http://www.innuendofods.com

Ron,
I never said this earlier, good review.

Nah, I’m not worked up, just curious if the hundreds of dollars spent on entry fees for the awards are worth it if sauces are winning awards for other reasons that quality of flavour, that’s all.

I do agree, award wins do HELP sell sauce, but you’re right, in the end marketing and “sauce awesomeness” is your best bet.

I hate to break it to you, but since we won 1st for Garlic Chilli and 2nd for Liquid Sin, our orders for both sauces have doubled since the win, sorry to wreck that theory. Or is it that they are just good and customer demand has increased the order sizes regardless of the win? I guess we’ll never know.

Ok, back to the garage……………..anyone know how to tie a noose??

Hi Big,

Thanks for the compliment!

As far as the awards thing goes, I can now say; “there is this one guy I know whose orders doubled after winning an award”. Oh well, Back to the polls!

Big…
From what i have seen hear lately everone has a different view on what they like and dont like.So From the “judges” at the show to Ron’s review i think the opionions vary.. By the way nice review Ron..But,,, and hear it is again just like i told Anthony.. If you are NOT a big fan of sweet!! you may not be the right person do do a review on a sweet sauce.

And just to make one more further comment..(since i saw it in your comments..BIG) i do not think any manufactures should be doing reviews of anyone elses product.

Big i hope all is well

Big…

I reviewed Sweet Sunshine’s “Hot” version a few months back and gave it a 10/10 (which I still stand behind BLANE). Ron’s point about subjectiveness is absolutely correct. Five people could review this sauce and you’d have five different takes on it. In my opinion their products are deserving of the awards and praise they have received, as are yours. Be proud of what you do and the products you create. Ron’s review of this sauce has absolutely nothing to do with, and no bearing on your products.

Gildo on 10/14/2007 at 4:49 pm said:

Big…

I reviewed Sweet Sunshine’s “Hot” version a few months back and gave it a 10/10 (which I still stand behind BLANE). Ron’s point about subjectiveness is absolutely correct. Five people could review this sauce and you’d have five different takes on it. In my opinion their products are deserving of the awards and praise they have received, as are yours. Be proud of what you do and the products you create. Ron’s review of this sauce has absolutely nothing to do with, and no bearing on your products.

Actually, my review of this product has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

And Mr. The Truth, do you think that perhaps someone who makes hot sauce might have a totally different perspective than a consumer? Perhaps a point of view that some people might be interested in hearing?

The truth on 10/14/2007 at 4:46 pm said:

Big…
From what i have seen hear lately everone has a different view on what they like and dont like.So From the “judges” at the show to Ron’s review i think the opionions vary.. By the way nice review Ron..But,,, and hear it is again just like i told Anthony.. If you are NOT a big fan of sweet!! you may not be the right person do do a review on a sweet sauce.

And just to make one more further comment..(since i saw it in your comments..BIG) i do not think any manufactures should be doing reviews of anyone elses product.

Big i hope all is well

Truth, all is well and I hope the same for you and yours.

Gildo on 10/14/2007 at 4:49 pm said:

Big…

I reviewed Sweet Sunshine’s “Hot” version a few months back and gave it a 10/10 (which I still stand behind BLANE). Ron’s point about subjectiveness is absolutely correct. Five people could review this sauce and you’d have five different takes on it. In my opinion their products are deserving of the awards and praise they have received, as are yours. Be proud of what you do and the products you create. Ron’s review of this sauce has absolutely nothing to do with, and no bearing on your products.

Gildo, I know Ron’s review has no bearing on my products. I guess this review has just reminded me of some conversations I have had of late about acccolades and their integrity and value.

Honestly, I’m not really worried about it, I just thought I’d ask for other peoples thoughts on the issue of awards, maybe not the best place to do so.

I’ve already taken the spotlight off of this sauce and it’s review and I’m sorry about that, I hate when people do that, and now I’m guilty of it.
Forget about my query and let’s continue on and focus on the review and the merits of the sauce.

Maybe I just need a nap.

Subjective is the key word, I personally love hot and sweet (go figure). Although this sauce is very sweet it does have a great red savina flavor and it does still have some nice heat. Remember reviews are synonymous with opinions. Ron, I think you touched on all the points that I expect from a review, and even though I personally don’t agree with them all, I must also say great review.

All the disclaimers you could ever want to issue….

I think that Ron adds some truly valuable advice here- he brings up a *very* good point about the clear tamper seals! A manufacturers’ standpoint is going to be different than the general publics.

He also brings up a good point about judging also- it’s kind of a “potluck” about what they are looking for at any particular point in time. My buddy CaJohn notwithstanding, I too place little value on awards. And, that’s NOT “sour grapes” as the winner of many myself It’s just hard to predict what the judges are going to want at any particular venue. Of course, when you’ve won as many as he has, you’ve probably a pretty good idea

You can really infer nothing from an award- it’s all in what you make that award **mean** And, more power to them than can! Big & Ron agree on this one- the award means nothing if you can’t translate that into *sales*!

If I wanted to be cynical, I could also point at that this sauce won many awards (congrats again guys- I’ve still your signed set on my shelf!) DESPITE having that which so many folks rail against- HFCS, Potassium Sorbate AND Sodium Benzoate!

Ron Levi on 10/14/2007 at 5:09 pm said:

Actually, my review of this product has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

And Mr. The Truth, do you think that perhaps someone who makes hot sauce might have a totally different perspective than a consumer? Perhaps a point of view that some people might be interested in hearing?

BTW…nice review!

I Love this place!

Jim- StepUpForCharity.org on 10/14/2007 at 6:03 pm said:

All the disclaimers you could ever want to issue….

I think that Ron adds some truly valuable advice here- he brings up a *very* good point about the clear tamper seals! A manufacturers’ standpoint is going to be different than the general publics.

He also brings up a good point about judging also- it’s kind of a “potluck” about what they are looking for at any particular point in time. My buddy CaJohn notwithstanding, I too place little value on awards. And, that’s NOT “sour grapes” as the winner of many myself It’s just hard to predict what the judges are going to want at any particular venue. Of course, when you’ve won as many as he has, you’ve probably a pretty good idea

You can really infer nothing from an award- it’s all in what you make that award **mean** And, more power to them than can! Big & Ron agree on this one- the award means nothing if you can’t translate that into *sales*!

If I wanted to be cynical, I could also point at that this sauce won many awards (congrats again guys- I’ve still your signed set on my shelf!) DESPITE having that which so many folks rail against- HFCS, Potassium Sorbate AND Sodium Benzoate!

Jim, thanks for taking the time to give us your input.
I’m sure you’re tired after the FMK weekend.
Hope all is well.
Thanks again.

I agree with many of the points brought fourth by Ron’s review. Coming from a manufactures standpoint his advice on the clear seal is spot on. Also I’ve tried all of Sweet Sunshines sauces this past year at the FFS in Albuquerque, while the flavor is interesting, the first ingredient being sugar would ward me from using these sauces frequently. AND, I didn’t win the Bose radio, so that sucked too! lol

Also the points brought up by Jim about HFCS, sodium bezoate, etc are issues that I stick by as well. I’m a stickler for ingredient content and how that content is used. Since I’m a manufacturer I tend to be very picky about that. If you’ve read my reviews you’ll understand this as well.

And, since I’m still considered a ‘newbie’ in the industry and have only won 2 Scovies since 2006, I can say that my ‘award winning’ hot sauces are so far outselling the ‘other sauce’ that has yet to win an award. Still not sure what to make of these awards in an overall type of perspective….

Then consider how Ron reviewed my 2nd place Scovie winner. He drew attention to items he felt as a manufacturer were important to point out. And then used an analogy calling my hot sauce a ‘great movie with a bad ending’… Or something along those lines… Even though so far this has been the BEST selling of the 3 hot sauces I make. My other Scovie winner is right on it’s ass! Tijuana Flats goes through quite a bit of this every year. Even though on the last order I got from them, the ‘non-award winning sauce’ order was larger than the other two?!? Go figure?

Beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder.

HSB is a crazy place where dealers, users, and abusers get together to bring love and happiness to an industry that is getting larger everyday. Since joining a few years back I have to say that I am enjoying the ride.

‘Escapin’ through the lily fields
I came across an empty space
It trembled and exploded
Left a bus stop in its place
The bus came by and I got on
That’s when it all began
There was cowboy Neal
At the wheel
Of a bus to never-ever land’

Uncle Big on 10/14/2007 at 3:56 pm said:

Ron,
I never said this earlier, good review.

Nah, I’m not worked up, just curious if the hundreds of dollars spent on entry fees for the awards are worth it if sauces are winning awards for other reasons that quality of flavour, that’s all.

I do agree, award wins do HELP sell sauce, but you’re right, in the end marketing and “sauce awesomeness” is your best bet.

I hate to break it to you, but since we won 1st for Garlic Chilli and 2nd for Liquid Sin, our orders for both sauces have doubled since the win, sorry to wreck that theory. Or is it that they are just good and customer demand has increased the order sizes regardless of the win? I guess we’ll never know.

Ok, back to the garage……………..anyone know how to tie a noose??

i know how to tie a noose.

Awards are cool, but they don’t validate our products for us. It is nice to be able to say a product won an award, but nicer to have hundreds or thousands of the general public tell you how good it is, no entry fees required. Having said that, I kept hearing from numerous people during the entire Texas show how good these sauces from Gourmet Conveniences were. And I thought they were very tasty. Nice people, too. Just do something about that company name, will ya?

Just to clarify my point of view. That’s all it is, a point of view. If you are making a sauce for the public to enjoy you should already be congratulated. That in itself is the prize. If you have won some awards in the process you surely deserve them.

When I review a sauce I try to do it from an industry point of view. But it is still only my opinion. I love fois gras, my girlfriend thinks it’s disgusting, I like Thai food that scorches your eyebrows off and she thinks I’m nuts. Two totally different points of view and both are right, well except for the nuts thing.

To all those whose sauces I’ve reviewed; no matter what I say, whether it’s a ten or a two, you guys are making it happen and that’s where it’s at! Being involved in this industry I know how hard it is to be successful. My non-industry friends think I made a sauce and put up a website and now I’m rich, because that’s how you do it….Right?

Ron Levi
Innuendo Enterprises LLC
http://www.innuendofoods.com

I am a salsa manufacturer in Alamogordo NM, and I have not won any awards. I have only been in business for 3 years and have entered the Scovies twice, last year and this year. I am really hoping to win an award but even after that happens, I will still get a better feeling from someone trying my stuff and then wanting to put it in their stores. That is how I have developed quite a following here. A friend of mine brought me a bottle of Doles Pineapple Salsa from Hawaii. They loved it, I thought it sucked rocks. Maybe doing double reviews from manufacturers and civilians side-by-side would be interesting.
I’ve made a sauce and put up a website, when does that rich thing happen? Nice review.

Here goes the argument again about multiple people doing reviews. I tried this sauce at the Weekend of Fire at Jungle Jim’s and I thought it was the tastiest thing I had there and I tried everything. The problem I had with it as was pointed out by many so far was the sugar and I told them as much. The sugar is probably why I liked it so much, but I can’t use it for the long haul.

Anyway, if you had 3-5 people reviewing the same product, you might be able to get a better, fairer review. Ron, the review is fine, I just rather see the multiple version because when a sauce doesn’t get a stellar review in this popular website, people who come here might think twice to buying it.

I am a chilehead and not a businessman selling hot sauce nor am I a maker trying to get my name out there. No offense to the reviewing team on this website, but I think those people who compete in the same field should not be doing reviews. I love Lars’ reviews, he makes my mouth water with those awesome details and pictures, but since he makes a hot sauce, he should not be doing a solo review. Just my opinion mind you.

I come here to read reviews and honestly I am very influenced by them. I want to try the good stuff. If a great review and a so-so review come out, guess which hot sauce I have a better chance of buying? Maybe one day someone will push this idea through and then we can get more of a consensus, until then “subjective” is another word for waste of time. If everything is subjective, why review anything to begin with?

Buddah on 10/15/2007 at 11:26 pm said:

Here goes the argument again about multiple people doing reviews. I tried this sauce at the Weekend of Fire at Jungle Jim’s and I thought it was the tastiest thing I had there and I tried everything. The problem I had with it as was pointed out by many so far was the sugar and I told them as much. The sugar is probably why I liked it so much, but I can’t use it for the long haul.

Anyway, if you had 3-5 people reviewing the same product, you might be able to get a better, fairer review. Ron, the review is fine, I just rather see the multiple version because when a sauce doesn’t get a stellar review in this popular website, people who come here might think twice to buying it.

I am a chilehead and not a businessman selling hot sauce nor am I a maker trying to get my name out there. No offense to the reviewing team on this website, but I think those people who compete in the same field should not be doing reviews. I love Lars’ reviews, he makes my mouth water with those awesome details and pictures, but since he makes a hot sauce, he should not be doing a solo review. Just my opinion mind you.

I come here to read reviews and honestly I am very influenced by them. I want to try the good stuff. If a great review and a so-so review come out, guess which hot sauce I have a better chance of buying? Maybe one day someone will push this idea through and then we can get more of a consensus, until then “subjective” is another word for waste of time. If everything is subjective, why review anything to begin with?

Amen!!

OK, about the Manufacturers as reviewers thing.

One reason it isn’t right is that we all have our own style, or styles as it may be. Just like in the world of art. One artist’s masterpiece is another artist’s garbage. Is it right for the one to review the other in his own style? Does the reviewer have enough skills of his own to act as a peer reviewer of someone who is much more talented, or in fact, much less talented? And if it is the former, is it right for the reviewer to proselytize that maker according to the reviwer’s tastes? I don’t think so…

As a manufacturer, I want to hear what the consumer, or a consumer’s advocate has to say. Not the potentially market-share jealous or newbie with a product they are sure is a “bullet” has to say about my or other maker’s product. I submit, there is a lot of new talent today that really has there sh@# together, there are a lot of “makers” that are redoing what has been around for a long time, all in the name of “Hot Sauce Entrepenuer”. God knows how many makers are a hero to their family and friends, but have a product that is simply a re-do. Some however are taking a chance, to them Godspeed!

THT for example, their new cranberry product is a breath of fresh air in a stale smoke filled room of habanero hot sauces. They have stepped outside the box to create something that they are proud to put their name on. I hope they sell a million bottles. Sam from Zane & Zack’s has a new idea with their honey based products. I hope this new twist is successful for them. The people in Ft Worth seemed to like it. I sincerely hope that everyone who invests all or the major portion of their life savings in a sauce venture that I’m sure was egged on by their close friends & family, succeed.

Let’s keep it to the consumer when reviewing the makers sauce offerings, it means so much more that way. How many movies have been panned by the media for their content/idea that have been a major success? To each his own, but lets not let that get tainted. There are at least 150 people reading these comments for every one who bothers to post. My experience at shows and my store has brought me to that conclusion. Nick’s stat’s bear that out (I didn’t do the math on his 3rd year stats, so I may be wrong), but that’s how it seems.

But most of all, is it right for someone (”manufacturer”)who has a sauce that is not in the marketplace, or does nothing but label others product and call it his own to have a “vested” opinion about how good another who has created a recipe for sauce is? I think the answer to that question is obvious.

I may have made enemies with this comment, but that’s the way life is. Some people look at the world and report on how they see it, others look at the same thing and report on how they think it should be. The best thing is we have this forum to do either.

CaJohn on 10/19/2007 at 8:35 pm said:

OK, about the Manufacturers as reviewers thing.

One reason it isn’t right is that we all have our own style, or styles as it may be. Just like in the world of art. One artist’s masterpiece is another artist’s garbage. Is it right for the one to review the other in his own style? Does the reviewer have enough skills of his own to act as a peer reviewer of someone who is much more talented, or in fact, much less talented? And if it is the former, is it right for the reviewer to proselytize that maker according to the reviwer’s tastes? I don’t think so…

As a manufacturer, I want to hear what the consumer, or a consumer’s advocate has to say. Not the potentially market-share jealous or newbie with a product they are sure is a “bullet” has to say about my or other maker’s product. I submit, there is a lot of new talent today that really has there sh@# together, there are a lot of “makers” that are redoing what has been around for a long time, all in the name of “Hot Sauce Entrepenuer”. God knows how many makers are a hero to their family and friends, but have a product that is simply a re-do. Some however are taking a chance, to them Godspeed!

THT for example, their new cranberry product is a breath of fresh air in a stale smoke filled room of habanero hot sauces. They have stepped outside the box to create something that they are proud to put their name on. I hope they sell a million bottles. Sam from Zane & Zack’s has a new idea with their honey based products. I hope this new twist is successful for them. The people in Ft Worth seemed to like it. I sincerely hope that everyone who invests all or the major portion of their life savings in a sauce venture that I’m sure was egged on by their close friends & family, succeed.

Let’s keep it to the consumer when reviewing the makers sauce offerings, it means so much more that way. How many movies have been panned by the media for their content/idea that have been a major success? To each his own, but lets not let that get tainted. There are at least 150 people reading these comments for every one who bothers to post. My experience at shows and my store has brought me to that conclusion. Nick’s stat’s bear that out (I didn’t do the math on his 3rd year stats, so I may be wrong), but that’s how it seems.

But most of all, is it right for someone (”manufacturer”)who has a sauce that is not in the marketplace, or does nothing but label others product and call it his own to have a “vested” opinion about how good another who has created a recipe for sauce is? I think the answer to that question is obvious.

I may have made enemies with this comment, but that’s the way life is. Some people look at the world and report on how they see it, others look at the same thing and report on how they think it should be. The best thing is we have this forum to do either.

Claps hands and stands. Thanks John for taking the time to speak your mind. I love this forum so much and enjoy the reviews and as a consumer I want to see my fellow consumers speak their minds. If there was a way to get more feedback through polls if not the multiple review format which Nick said is hard to pull off, then this site would most definitely rock.

The first 3 years it was taking this baby of a website and nurturing it until it was a place where people could come, meet, greet and read about subjects and reviews on hot sauce. Wonderful idea made good. Now going on the 4th year, there is an opportunity for more. How about it? Start up a thread away from the good people of Sweet Sunshine and ask what you would like to see for the 4th year. The hot sauce world is bigger than it has ever been and growing. I give this website out all the time to the people around me, strangers, co-workers. I share products with people. I recommend stuff I love and even gift hot sauce to people. I have a party on Sunday I am bringing one of Cajohn’s new BBQ sauce for some ribs. Tomorrow I have a baby shower to go to for a friend. I am bringing my friend hot sauce and salsa that I bought recently. Well I got baby stuff too of course, but it was stuff he requested. This place is awesome, but with a little tinkering it could be, as Leroy would say, “Awesomer”.

Hi CaJohn and Buddah,

I would like to say for the record, I have never compared any sauces I review to my sauce. I would never give a review that is biased to make any product I make look better. I judge every sauce on their own merit. I too am a consumer of hot sauce and like any other consumer I have my likes and dislikes. My dislikes are no different than Joe Consumer. I might be able to add a different perspective based on industry experience. For instance I mentioned the label in this review and low & behold there is an article in Gourmet New reporting of the label change on this line. If the reviewer cannot stay impartial then they should not be doing reviews whether they are a maker or not.

Ron Levi
Impartial Reviewer

“Impartial Reviewer”

There is NO such thing…

as Leroy would say, “Awesomer”.

Buddah, Leroy only has one tooth, and he hates surfers, so he couldn’t and wouldn’t say “Awesomer”. It would be more like “‘dis plasth is awwrite.”

Cajohn, I’ll keep my mouth shut this time.

My wife always tells me to stay out of these but I for once in 22 years am not listening. So here goes…

I, like CaJohn, feel there is no such thing as an “Impartial Reviewer”. A good example would be Meet You Maker #25 - Lars - The question was “5. What is your favorite sauce that you don’t make? That is a tough one, because many times when I try a new sauce I immediately compare it to my hot sauces. Now I am not trying to pick on Lars because, like most of you, I think he is a heck of a cook and has some really great products and has brought a lot of fresh ideas to the industry. But this just adds a little proof on why manufacturer’s shouldn’t review.

On another issue as far as awards. Without naming how many awards I have one and how big my orders are (cause I don’t believe in tooting my own horn every time I post. Sorry another story some other time down the road.) I will say our biggest selling salsa product has never won an award on any level. It has been reviewed a few times and I get more business off a review than I get from a product winning an award. Just a couple of thoughts…

Sorry the question and answer kind of ran together should have read

5. What is your favorite sauce that you don’t make? “That is a tough one, because many times when I try a new sauce I immediately compare it to my hot sauces.”

Big Dawg on 10/20/2007 at 9:22 am said:

My wife always tells me to stay out of these but I for once in 22 years am not listening. So here goes…

I, like CaJohn, feel there is no such thing as an “Impartial Reviewer”. A good example would be Meet You Maker #25 - Lars - The question was “5. What is your favorite sauce that you don’t make? That is a tough one, because many times when I try a new sauce I immediately compare it to my hot sauces. Now I am not trying to pick on Lars because, like most of you, I think he is a heck of a cook and has some really great products and has brought a lot of fresh ideas to the industry. But this just adds a little proof on why manufacturer’s shouldn’t review.

On another issue as far as awards. Without naming how many awards I have one and how big my orders are (cause I don’t believe in tooting my own horn every time I post. Sorry another story some other time down the road.) I will say our biggest selling salsa product has never won an award on any level. It has been reviewed a few times and I get more business off a review than I get from a product winning an award. Just a couple of thoughts…

Awards. I carry almost every product that has won a award. Nope no increase in sales. Maybe 1% of consumers might know about products getting a awards. I know the awards mean alot to the Makers. But at my level no big deal. If I had my way I would tell everyone use your cash for In store Demos. Not awards, but that’s me. Need to go sell some products. Bret BBJJ

Bret on 10/20/2007 at 10:20 am said:

Awards. I carry almost every product that has won a award. Nope no increase in sales. Maybe 1% of consumers might know about products getting a awards. I know the awards mean alot to the Makers. But at my level no big deal. If I had my way I would tell everyone use your cash for In store Demos. Not awards, but that’s me. Need to go sell some products. Bret BBJJ

Bret,

Thank You For Saying That! The only way I have ever had an award work for me is to put the little award sticker on the bottle. That helps in some locations, but not all of them.

Ron Levi
Impartial Reviewer,
Really Some People Can Be. I did it for a living and I know how!

Hey Guys,

Personally, I like reviewing sauces. But it would not kill me if I didn’t. I review restaurants professionally and BBQ restaurants because I like doing it. I totally disagree that you cannot be impartial. If you stick to a set criteria and concentrate on the scope of the criteria you are acting in a way that does not take your emotions into account. I think if you look at a product and prejudge it based on who makes it, or you just plain slander it for whatever reason you have, you are pretty freakin’ immature and should not be a reviewer anyways and you probably wouldn’t last very long as a maker either. Sorry that comment was not impartial.

Ron Levi
Partially Impartial Reviewer

I’ve never voiced my thoughts on the reviewers being hot sauce makers as well, because I don’t know what I think exactly.

I can tell you this, if an award winning sauce master like Cajohn reviewed a product and gave it a rave review it would carry a lot of weight in the industry, just like Martin Scorsese giving a thumbs up to a movie by a new director.
But would Cajohn do a review like that? Based on his comments, I would say that’s a resounding Hell No! I respect that decision.

I wholeheartedly agree with Cajohn when he says the consumers or consumer advocates are the biggest sounding board on product, that’s why it’s nice to have our store front and developing a trust with customers and using them as guinea pigs, er, market research subjects.
I’ve had to rethink 3 new recipes that I’ve been playing with after having tried them out on customers at the store over the past couple of months. Sometimes what I think is a great idea, doesn’t play in the marketplace.

Big Dawg, I agree with you as well, our biggest seller in the store hasn’t won any awards and hasn’t been reviewed anywhere yet.

I guess next year I will have to rethink the entry fees for the awards and just use that cash to buy a plane ticket and head down to the shows to meet everyone face to face and PARTY!
Is that a smarter investment? I think so.

I see both sides of the issue. Ron and other maker/reviewers have a right to be a chilehead first maker second sometimes. However, the fact that the reviewer also makes their own hot sauces will be brought up again and again as he reviews products, so in the interest of ‘keeping it about the product’, I think it is a conflict and shouldn’t be done. Unfair as it might seem to the man, it’s part of the maker’s responsibility in my opinion. How can you possibly say anything less than stellar about another manufacturer’s product and not look petty and theatened?

“I guess next year I will have to rethink the entry fees for the awards and just use that cash to buy a plane ticket and head down to the shows to meet everyone face to face and PARTY!
Is that a smarter investment? I think so.”

Couldn’t agree more, Big. Awards are great when you have the cash to enter, but I think getting in front of the public and distributers year after year yields so much more. Let’s tear it up!

I *mostly* agree with CaJohn, though not entirely. I think we’re getting a bit bogged down in assumed meanings again- re: “gimmicks” on an earlier thread. I think that a lot of folks are taking “no such thing as impartial” to mean “no such thing as fair”. Without doubt Mr Levi, you can do a ‘fair’ review but I do agree that it is nigh impossible for someone to do an ‘impartial’ review because we all have our preferences. Care to review my pureed brussel sprout hotsauce? Anyone? Didn’t think so And that’s because we all have notions of what we like and don’t like. Mr Levi thought the label was ADHD *because* he has an idea of what a label should like. Doesn’t mean he isn’t being ‘fair’ in his review of it, but it also isn’t being judged ‘impartial’ because of it. Lars is a GREAT example- does a very ‘fair’ review but his biases are clearly known to us and made known in the review. Hardly impartial

I’d be less interested in what a manufacturer has to say then consumers. Well… I’m also not *that* interested in what consumers have to say either There’s enough of them out there that you’ll have somes that like it and somes that don’t

The only changes that I’ve accepted to my products have come from retailers, like our buddy Mr Vitek. I resisted bar codes for years until I had enough retailers tell me that they needed them in order to sell the product But then that could be seen as giving in to the forces of mass sameness.

My two biggest sellers have won numerous awards but they were my two biggest sellers long *before* the awards. There’s also been no major uptick in sales since the awards, but I don’t promote my stuff very much either. As mentioned earlier, awards don’t mean sales if you don’t use the awards.

Lee@DC on 10/20/2007 at 3:48 pm said:

I see both sides of the issue. Ron and other maker/reviewers have a right to be a chilehead first maker second sometimes. However, the fact that the reviewer also makes their own hot sauces will be brought up again and again as he reviews products, so in the interest of ‘keeping it about the product’, I think it is a conflict and shouldn’t be done. Unfair as it might seem to the man, it’s part of the maker’s responsibility in my opinion. How can you possibly say anything less than stellar about another manufacturer’s product and not look petty and theatened?

WOW. Do I look Petty and Theatened? I never meant to look petty and I never felt theatened or threatened for that matter.

Lee@DC on 10/20/2007 at 3:52 pm said:

“I guess next year I will have to rethink the entry fees for the awards and just use that cash to buy a plane ticket and head down to the shows to meet everyone face to face and PARTY!
Is that a smarter investment? I think so.”

Couldn’t agree more, Big. Awards are great when you have the cash to enter, but I think getting in front of the public and distributers year after year yields so much more. Let’s tear it up!

It sounds like the gauntlet has been dropped.
So Lee, are you gonna babysit Isabella for me?
Actually the Tamales have already volunteered, so me thinks I should start picking aluminum cans and get airfare together for NM next year!!

Jim- StepUpForCharity.org on 10/20/2007 at 3:59 pm said:

I *mostly* agree with CaJohn, though not entirely. I think we’re getting a bit bogged down in assumed meanings again- re: “gimmicks” on an earlier thread. I think that a lot of folks are taking “no such thing as impartial” to mean “no such thing as fair”. Without doubt Mr Levi, you can do a ‘fair’ review but I do agree that it is nigh impossible for someone to do an ‘impartial’ review because we all have our preferences. Care to review my pureed brussel sprout hotsauce? Anyone? Didn’t think so And that’s because we all have notions of what we like and don’t like. Mr Levi thought the label was ADHD *because* he has an idea of what a label should like. Doesn’t mean he isn’t being ‘fair’ in his review of it, but it also isn’t being judged ‘impartial’ because of it. Lars is a GREAT example- does a very ‘fair’ review but his biases are clearly known to us and made known in the review. Hardly impartial

I’d be less interested in what a manufacturer has to say then consumers. Well… I’m also not *that* interested in what consumers have to say either There’s enough of them out there that you’ll have somes that like it and somes that don’t

The only changes that I’ve accepted to my products have come from retailers, like our buddy Mr Vitek. I resisted bar codes for years until I had enough retailers tell me that they needed them in order to sell the product But then that could be seen as giving in to the forces of mass sameness.

My two biggest sellers have won numerous awards but they were my two biggest sellers long *before* the awards. There’s also been no major uptick in sales since the awards, but I don’t promote my stuff very much either. As mentioned earlier, awards don’t mean sales if you don’t use the awards.

At first, I have to admit I was a bit repulsed by the name, but Jim Campbell’s pureed brussel sprout hotsauce turned out to be a nice surprise! There is a little smoky, nutty, flavor and I think judging by the black flecks that Jim must fire roast the brussell sprouts to bring out these flavors. The heat is moderate but well balanced and compliments the brusselly flavor. If you are a brussell sprout hot sauce fan this is definitely your hot sauce! Thanks Jim, you are the master!

Be great to see you and the crew in NM UB!

Have huvason send you his cans…probably pay for the whole trip instead of just airfare.

Big Dawg on 10/20/2007 at 5:20 pm said:

Be great to see you and the crew in NM UB!

Have huvason send you his cans…probably pay for the whole trip instead of just airfare.

Bottle my friend, bottles

And who knows… I may need them for my own airfare. I’ve been known to show up to these things you know

You assclowns better show.

Anyway Big Dawg, this is my 3rd and last time trying to call you out for the Dallas-Minnesota Game. I placed something on your blog, TTF, and now this blog. Your Cowgirls are going down tomorrow. In front of these fellow Chileheads, if your Cowgirls lose tomorrow, you must wear a NY Giant hat of my choosing for the entire FF in Albuddahquerque. If I lose I will buy 6 bottles of hot sauce from your website. Now your team is favored by 9 1/2 points @ their little home in Dallas, my team is 2-3 and barely can stop any kind of passing attack. You don’t want to look like a chicken here on HSB, do ya?

Accept or Decline or Counteroffer? What say you?

Ron Levi, good sir, I hope you were not offended by anything anyone said in connection with the review debate, it has little to do with you as a reviewer. It is good you have a sense of humor, but I was afraid your honor was hurt by the whole argument. It isn’t anything to do with you as a reviewer. Your reviews were good, its just a matter of semantics here.

I will offer one last analogy on the matter. Let us say you sell chocolate, would you rather see 1 member of a small chocolate company or for that matter a big chocolate company like Hershey’s review your product or would you rather see a handful of your target consumers review it themselves? Even if the chocolate maker knows the products, knows the ingredients and how they work best together, I truly believe that the consumer makes the best review. Why? Because they will be front and center buying the product and more than likely not the other chocolate maker.

I come here as a consumer and look to these reviews for a gauge on whether to buy it or not. I read a favorable review not too long ago on Ebesse Zozo hot sauce, and I see Uncle Big has it now stocked on his website. I had it on my list since the review, and now that I was ready to buy Uncle Big’s products, I thought it was an opportunity to purchase the Ebesse Zozo product too. I never heard of this product before that review, but here I am ordering it. For that matter I never even ordered from Uncle Big directly before either. Also influenced by a recommendation through Chileheads from HSB to try a product I now call one of my favorites, Droolin Devil Garlic Chili Sauce. HSB carries a lot of weight, I just would like to see more consumer friendly reviews that don’t:
1- Kill a hot sauce by 1 reviewer
2- Raise the hot sauce to a level of greatness by 1 reviewer
3- That tell me that the reviewer admits that more than likely they used the hot product with the wrong meal/choice of food. That next time they will choose something better. NO, don’t submit that review until you actually do it. I don’t want to know that you will after the review, include it as part of review. That I would like to read. From failure breeds success.

Okay there are my rants for this evening. Now ready to go watch UFC PPV tonite at Hooters.

Hey Buddah…Sorry for delay on you offer…studying for a promotional Drivers Test for the fire dept. Getting to type on my breaks. If you win I will give you 6 products of your choice free and If I win you have to wear Big Dawg shirt and hat if available Saturday of the NM Fiery food show and bark whenever a cute girl walks up to ya!….

Big Dawg on 10/20/2007 at 7:04 pm said:

Hey Buddah…Sorry for delay on you offer…studying for a promotional Drivers Test for the fire dept. Getting to type on my breaks. If you win I will give you 6 products of your choice free and If I win you have to wear Big Dawg shirt and hat if available Saturday of the NM Fiery food show and bark whenever a cute girl walks up to ya!….

LOL I will do that, but you have to agree to the NY Giant hat. Fair is fair.

ok on the NYG hat but not all weekend…lol

Ron Levi on 10/20/2007 at 5:18 pm said:

At first, I have to admit I was a bit repulsed by the name, but Jim Campbell’s pureed brussel sprout hotsauce turned out to be a nice surprise! There is a little smoky, nutty, flavor and I think judging by the black flecks that Jim must fire roast the brussell sprouts to bring out these flavors. The heat is moderate but well balanced and compliments the brusselly flavor. If you are a brussell sprout hot sauce fan this is definitely your hot sauce! Thanks Jim, you are the master!

Very good Ron! You going to make it to another show or do you stick to CA?

I agree with Al here that multiple reviews of the same sauce would be of help… though that surely invites the ‘general rumble’ over differing views

Fat Kid- look for a package later this week

No man, I don’t think you did, and I wasn’t trying to say that. I just know that if I was to do a review and wanted to say something negative I would fell like I was coming off that way. I think you are a good reviewer, and my statement was in general.

Ron Levi on 10/20/2007 at 4:15 pm said:

WOW. Do I look Petty and Theatened? I never meant to look petty and I never felt theatened or threatened for that matter.

Referring to-

Hi Guys,

I love this site and I think all of you are great. Nothing said here has offended me. I have a great sense of humor and a tough skin, and since you all obviously hate me I’m never submitting another review. Ever! Well, never is a long time so we’ll see.

Ron Levi
Biased Baboon Ass Eater

Here’s my idea of a review…

Nick and I standing in front of Screaming Monkey’s booth in NM 2 or 3 years ago, looking over a plate full of bright orange habaneros dipped in fine chocolate. The price for this succulent morsel of heat…one measly dollar! It all looked so attractive! Just as adventurers are magnetically drawn to the depths and far corners of the earth ours hands search feverishly for the all mighty greenback. With stems clasped firmly between the thumb and index fingers and an ever so gentle backward tilt of the head, these bulbs of sugar coated fire were enveloped in one gulp.

So let’s just cut to the chase! During the process of chewing Nick remained somewhat silent. Well…he may have said something like “Wow that’s good”. You know how showoffs are! I on the other hand chose to verbally display my prowless by giving running commentary. “I think the chocolate neutralizes the heat quiet nicely and………and……huh……”. HOLY CARP a rosebush was having carnal knowledge with my throat! Through the pain and suffocation due to blood from my shredded tonsils I managed to gurgle “Gotta go”, and I disappeared into the crowd.

So far I’ve given the cause and affect. Now for the final score….

THE DAMN CHOCOLATE WAS TOO HOT! YA HEAR THAT SCREAMING MONKEY? THE DAMN CHOCOLATE WAS TOO HOT!

Disclaimer: I am in no way, past or present, manufacturer and/or reviewer of anything remotely related to anything what-so-ever. Well, maybe a few good memories here and there. For that I give myself freely

Big Dawg on 10/20/2007 at 7:45 pm said:

ok on the NYG hat but not all weekend…lol

Okay agreed then and to make it even here is the wager:

Vikings win, you wear a NY Giant cap of my choosing only for Saturday at the Fiery Food Show in Albuddahquerque and I win 6 Big Dawg items also of my choosing.
Cowgirls win, I become a walking promotion for Big Dawg also on the Saturday @ the FF Show wearing a Big Dawg Hat & T-shirt (I hope you have XXL, might be XL by then, fingers crossed), and I will bark at any purdy girl that walks up to me. (I can see set up from a mile away).

That good or you want me to buy some hot sauce from you too? I would wish you good luck, but like most good Americans outside the Texas Fort Worth-Dallas region, I hate the Cowboys.

Here is a link you should check out BD
http://www.hatland.com/closeup.cfm?picture=bigpics/RBKspiderwebnewgia-blkorg.jpg&name=NY_Giants_SPIDERWEB_Black_Fitted_Hat_by_Reebok

MSK classic post Now stay away from the Ripple.

CaJohn on 10/20/2007 at 6:02 am said:

“Impartial Reviewer”

There is NO such thing…

Amen….

John glad to see you are still around..MSK was that you ?HOLY Sh@%!! Can not wait to see you both next year.

Ron Levi on 10/20/2007 at 8:35 pm said:

Hi Guys,

I love this site and I think all of you are great. Nothing said here has offended me. I have a great sense of humor and a tough skin, and since you all obviously hate me I’m never submitting another review. Ever! Well, never is a long time so we’ll see.

Ron Levi
Biased Baboon Ass Eater

Ron Grow up..

Ron Levi on 10/20/2007 at 8:35 pm said:

Hi Guys,

I love this site and I think all of you are great. Nothing said here has offended me. I have a great sense of humor and a tough skin, and since you all obviously hate me I’m never submitting another review. Ever! Well, never is a long time so we’ll see.

Ron Levi
Biased Baboon Ass Eater

Ron, I thought your reviews were always well done (and as impartial as they can be). Had you posted under a pseudonym none would be the wiser. Call it misleading, but there always needs to be a whipping boy so it’s your turn at the pillar.

I have seen many interviews\reviews in various media formats where they have an artists corner and they give their take on projects released among their peers. I always found it interesting to see what they have to say.

Hopefully we will still see some reviews from you!

Anthony on 10/21/2007 at 8:19 am said:

Ron, I thought your reviews were always well done (and as impartial as they can be). Had you posted under a pseudonym none would be the wiser. Call it misleading, but there always needs to be a whipping boy so it’s your turn at the pillar.

I have seen many interviews\reviews in various media formats where they have an artists corner and they give their take on projects released among their peers. I always found it interesting to see what they have to say.

Hopefully we will still see some reviews from you!

Once again this isn’t about Ron, it never has been. The system in question in which reviewing here is done is flawed. Much like many of the media outlets you mention. Using Fox Media for example, everyone knows what side of the political fence they stand when they do their reporting. Whether it be tv, print or electronic they have a bias. I don’t think it runs that deep in most other media outlets but it can. The topic to have consumers do reviews instead of makers is a valid one. Also the multiple person review is albeit a harder one to pull off, is a better one as well.

You can paint it anyway you want, if you have a website that is influential in the minds of it’s readers, you have a choice to listen to it’s viewers or stay the status quo.

Buddah on 10/21/2007 at 8:37 am said:

Once again this isn’t about Ron, it never has been. The system in question in which reviewing here is done is flawed. Much like many of the media outlets you mention. Using Fox Media for example, everyone knows what side of the political fence they stand when they do their reporting. Whether it be tv, print or electronic they have a bias. I don’t think it runs that deep in most other media outlets but it can. The topic to have consumers do reviews instead of makers is a valid one. Also the multiple person review is albeit a harder one to pull off, is a better one as well.

You can paint it anyway you want, if you have a website that is influential in the minds of it’s readers, you have a choice to listen to it’s viewers or stay the status quo.

I would love to see more reviews done by other makers. Especially the well established ones. I think they could provide some of the best input and insight.

Anthony on 10/21/2007 at 8:52 am said:

I would love to see more reviews done by other makers. Especially the well established ones. I think they could provide some of the best input and insight.

Okay well said. Thanks as always.

Anthony on 10/21/2007 at 8:52 am said:

I would love to see more reviews done by other makers. Especially the well established ones. I think they could provide some of the best input and insight.

I don’t believe it ever will happen. We have far to much RESPECT for each other than to rate what each other is producing. The people who really want this probably watch auto racing for the wrecks, and hockey games for the fights. We may not like another’s particular offering, but again, RESPECT keeps us from criticizing them. I think in most circles it is called PROFESSIONALISM…

the truth on 10/21/2007 at 8:10 am said:

Ron Grow up..

Hello????? Sarcasm, recognize it?

Jim- StepUpForCharity.org on 10/20/2007 at 7:53 pm said:

Very good Ron! You going to make it to another show or do you stick to CA?

I agree with Al here that multiple reviews of the same sauce would be of help… though that surely invites the ‘general rumble’ over differing views

Fat Kid- look for a package later this week

Hi Jim,
I tend to do local so as not to lose my shorts in shipping and drayage. I’m not a big fan of starting a show $2000 in the hole. I’ve been wanting to do the Albuquerque but that would be the case.

CaJohn on 10/21/2007 at 9:28 am said:

I don’t believe it ever will happen. We have far to much RESPECT for each other than to rate what each other is producing. The people who really want this probably watch auto racing for the wrecks, and hockey games for the fights. We may not like another’s particular offering, but again, RESPECT keeps us from criticizing them. I think in most circles it is called PROFESSIONALISM…

See, I think it can be done with respect and professionalism. I have seen it done before and when it is done maturely the results are great.

There is a great format where an “authority” in their respective niche is given a blind tasting\hearing\reading and then gives their opinion. That could make things quite interesting.

Ron Levi on 10/21/2007 at 10:49 am said:

Hello????? Sarcasm, recognize it?

Oh darn i was hopeful

Buddah on 10/21/2007 at 8:37 am said:

Once again this isn’t about Ron, it never has been. The system in question in which reviewing here is done is flawed. Much like many of the media outlets you mention. Using Fox Media for example, everyone knows what side of the political fence they stand when they do their reporting. Whether it be tv, print or electronic they have a bias. I don’t think it runs that deep in most other media outlets but it can. The topic to have consumers do reviews instead of makers is a valid one. Also the multiple person review is albeit a harder one to pull off, is a better one as well.

You can paint it anyway you want, if you have a website that is influential in the minds of it’s readers, you have a choice to listen to it’s viewers or stay the status quo.

Hehe, Now I’m incognito so “the truth” won’t bash on me anymore. Anyways, I agree that point of view can skew a reviews position. The way we get around this when evaluating restaurants is to have the criteria set to be very specific where there is no room for personal preferences to interfere.

BuckyG on 10/21/2007 at 2:52 pm said:

Hehe, Now I’m incognito so “the truth” won’t bash on me anymore. Anyways, I agree that point of view can skew a reviews position. The way we get around this when evaluating restaurants is to have the criteria set to be very specific where there is no room for personal preferences to interfere.

Not foolin’ me Goldstein I here you about the whole you start in when doing shows, but they are fun aren’t they? That’s why I do them As I advised somebody once- you don’t work this hard at the biz *not* to have fun every once in a while & the shows are the fun And- sometimes you actually break even

Nick Lindauer on 10/21/2007 at 2:31 pm said:

Stay tuned Buddah - Behind the scenes we’ve been working on quite a few things that have been brought up here.

Thanks for the feedback!

I can’t wait to see them Nick. Thanks as always!

Hi Jim,

What is the next show coming up? If I thought I could break even I would do it just to be able to get out of the office and shlep some sauce. I love the whole event buzz. Well, except for the load in, and the load out, and the setting up the booth, and tearing down the booth, but everything else in between, that’s fun. Right? It’s fun? Right.

the truth on 10/21/2007 at 11:34 am said:

Oh darn i was hopeful

Hellllo, does he recognize it?????…. he’s married to me.. isnt he lol

Ron Levi on 10/21/2007 at 10:49 am said:

Hello????? Sarcasm, recognize it?

sorry… quoted the wrong one

BuckyG on 10/22/2007 at 12:07 pm said:

Hi Jim,

What is the next show coming up? If I thought I could break even I would do it just to be able to get out of the office and shlep some sauce. I love the whole event buzz. Well, except for the load in, and the load out, and the setting up the booth, and tearing down the booth, but everything else in between, that’s fun. Right? It’s fun? Right.

Albuquerque is the next one for me. Maybe Australia if I can get bloody Haggis to get me the info. CA’s just a hop skip & a jump from NM- drive it out yourself & save the shipping & dreyage

Jim, I am not sure how to contact you. Do you sell any of those nice little Trinidad Scorpion Peppers? I have some plans with them if I can get a hold of a few.

Buddah on 10/22/2007 at 6:48 pm said:

Jim, I am not sure how to contact you. Do you sell any of those nice little Trinidad Scorpion Peppers? I have some plans with them if I can get a hold of a few.

I’ll try to get you some later this week. No- I don’t sell them… I give them away Come to the Open Fields & you can pick all you want

I’m reachable by putting “chile peppers” as the subject header in a note to jim at wildpepper.com

Hi Jim,

Albuquerque has been conflicting with the Napa Valley Mustard Festival. We are the Dave’s Gourmet Booth in Napa and we have been there for the last 5 years and it is a very profitable show. I was in Albuquerque in 2001 and if had to pay for that booth I would have lost my Baboon Ass!